TWP's Jacob recently wrote "Martha fell in love with the god Doctor, not the man." I didn't see that at all.
I did totally. Martha wasn't in love with the Doctor at all; she was in love with the myth, totally. The man would have annoyed her silly.
To me, they made no effort to distinguish Martha's feelings for the Doctor from Rose's feelings except whether or not they were reciprocated.
Oh, and see I didn't see that at all. Rose didn't let him take himself seriously, Rose was always about the two of them, they were partners, they were two, a team. With Martha, she was wanting to impress the Doctor, wanting the Doctor to love her. She saw this mythical, amazing God-like creature and wanted to be apart of that. Look at how many times the Doctor almost let himself die (and it was a lot), and Martha never got it, never stopped; because the Doctor was above that. Rose never sat around waiting for the Doctor to save her, or talked about her feelings about this great, great man ... she did what had to be done. Martha treated him like he was better than. I could be misremembering, but while I know that both Rose and Donna defended humans to the Doctor and other aliens in front of him quite a bit, I don't think Martha ever did.
Martha had spent the last 12 episodes (after 3x01) pining over the Doctor and being his sidekick, and suddenly now, she's got a brain of her own? I didn't get it. That was sloppy writing, IMHO. Martha came perilously close to Mary Sue territory in those eps. :/
It made perfect sense. I did watch all of S3 in about two weeks, but still it made perfect sense. Once she realized that he was never going to love her, and then left, had her distance, met a real man (Tom) someone who she didn't see in this "aaaahhh!!!" light, she realized that it wasn't love love, it was a silly crush, but she still believed the Doctor was an amazing man and she loved him ... just not like that.
Clearly, we have to agree to disagree on Martha. :) But I do think RTD realized the mistake he'd made with her character, and when he began writing her with no romantic feelings at all is when she became better (in S4).
But it didn't happen just like that. We got a clear bridge in the finale when she gave her speech to him, when she called Tom up ... she got it. We saw it moving towards that after "Utopia" -- the first time she ever really heard him talk about Rose, and found out what happened, what separated them. And in her return, we had discussion about it between her and Donna, in regards to that she no longer did. It wasn't a dropped character arc, it was a finished character arc.
To me, Martha's failure was ultimately the writers' responsibility (and RTD's, since as the showrunner, he presumably looked over other writers' scripts).
Yeah, we disagree because I saw a perfectly legitimate arc play out over the whole season and then continue in her following appearances. I blame the actress.
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Re: I've mention I ramble, yes? Sigh, part 2 ...
Date: 2008-08-20 11:53 pm (UTC)I did totally. Martha wasn't in love with the Doctor at all; she was in love with the myth, totally. The man would have annoyed her silly.
To me, they made no effort to distinguish Martha's feelings for the Doctor from Rose's feelings except whether or not they were reciprocated.
Oh, and see I didn't see that at all. Rose didn't let him take himself seriously, Rose was always about the two of them, they were partners, they were two, a team. With Martha, she was wanting to impress the Doctor, wanting the Doctor to love her. She saw this mythical, amazing God-like creature and wanted to be apart of that. Look at how many times the Doctor almost let himself die (and it was a lot), and Martha never got it, never stopped; because the Doctor was above that. Rose never sat around waiting for the Doctor to save her, or talked about her feelings about this great, great man ... she did what had to be done. Martha treated him like he was better than. I could be misremembering, but while I know that both Rose and Donna defended humans to the Doctor and other aliens in front of him quite a bit, I don't think Martha ever did.
Martha had spent the last 12 episodes (after 3x01) pining over the Doctor and being his sidekick, and suddenly now, she's got a brain of her own? I didn't get it. That was sloppy writing, IMHO. Martha came perilously close to Mary Sue territory in those eps. :/
It made perfect sense. I did watch all of S3 in about two weeks, but still it made perfect sense. Once she realized that he was never going to love her, and then left, had her distance, met a real man (Tom) someone who she didn't see in this "aaaahhh!!!" light, she realized that it wasn't love love, it was a silly crush, but she still believed the Doctor was an amazing man and she loved him ... just not like that.
Clearly, we have to agree to disagree on Martha. :) But I do think RTD realized the mistake he'd made with her character, and when he began writing her with no romantic feelings at all is when she became better (in S4).
But it didn't happen just like that. We got a clear bridge in the finale when she gave her speech to him, when she called Tom up ... she got it. We saw it moving towards that after "Utopia" -- the first time she ever really heard him talk about Rose, and found out what happened, what separated them. And in her return, we had discussion about it between her and Donna, in regards to that she no longer did. It wasn't a dropped character arc, it was a finished character arc.
To me, Martha's failure was ultimately the writers' responsibility (and RTD's, since as the showrunner, he presumably looked over other writers' scripts).
Yeah, we disagree because I saw a perfectly legitimate arc play out over the whole season and then continue in her following appearances. I blame the actress.