Logan/Veronica Speculation

[arabian]

Erm sorta. This deals heavily with upcoming relationship spoilers ...

It's more of speculation on how the Logan/Parker and Veronica/Piz relationships SHOULD play out. See, I fully and firmly believe that this dual pairing can work, but only if the two couples are portrayed as the following.

Logan/Parker -- clearly using each other as a healing process of sorts. Yes, they should care about one another, but it should be the both of them showing them they ARE capable of having a healthy relationship. For Parker, this helps her beyond the rape and for Logan, it shows him that HE is not the problem which would give him the self-esteem to stand up more for himself in a future relationship with Veronica. Ideally, I'd like to see Logan and Parker mutually decide in ep 18 that while they care about each other, this isn't a long-term thing and they're better as friends.

Veronica/Piz - needs to be the opposite. We need to see Veronica clearly using Piz as proof to herself that she can get/is over Logan, but that really she isn't. We need to see that it's not working, that they don't mesh, because Veronica needs to realize that it's not Logan that caused the downfall of their relationship but her. And maybe I'm still being stupidly optimistic, but the fact that we had Logan tell Veronica multiple times, in multiple episodes, by multiple writers her issues that there will be a payoff. But she won't realize this unless she dates someone light and fluffy and normal and realizes that 'wait a minute! this isn't working.' For Piz, he needs to see that Veronica is just so not for him. In other words, Veronica needs to chew him up and spit him out. And realize that she's done it and that she about did the same to Logan, but that he was able to withstand it and is the only one who can keep her on an even keel ... if she'd just let him.

Whereas L/P should end amicably and nicely, V/P should end badly. The problem is that this not only has to be written and directed this way, it needs to be played this way. Which means, Jason needs to tone down the romantic schmoop in scenes with Julie Gonzalo and show that it's affection and caring, but nowhere near love. And Kristen needs to play a Veronica who is aware of Logan and is either clearly rebounding or is desperately over the top in proving to herself that thing with Piz is great. I can see JD doing this right; La Bell ... yeah, thus the use of the word "problem" above. Her, I don't trust to play it how it should be, or even if this IS the route they're going, how it is intended. Do. Not. Trust. Her. Sigh. Sidenote: I miss her consistently dead-on, awesome, subtext-y, layered performances from S1 so much, it's not even funny!

Anyhoo, if we don't have the above scenarios for both relationships, I don't see how it will be believable with LoVe back together at the end of the season -- and yes, I still think that that's the plan. If they do the above like I said or a close variation, I think it will make the reunion actually work.

ETA: Okay just read Jason's new interview and HE doesn't know (and sounds like he doesn't think) that Logan and Veronica will get back together this season, so I'm pretty sure we can discount anything of significance happening in 16-18. He hasn't seen the last two scripts yet, but there IS a Logan/Veronica scene in 18 that he talks about. Ah, who knows?

And yes, this means I do still have actual delusions of hope where this show and this couple are concerned. Scary, huh?

Comments

[sowell.livejournal.com]

Yay, my current favorite VM topic to bitch about. :)

Yeah, I'm still not sure the Logan/Parker scenario will work, even if it does play out like you say. I strongly believe the main reason Logan stays with Veronica is because he associates happiness with her (despite the awful times), and no one else. There really isn't anyone else left in his life who has brought him any true happiness at all. Once he learns to associate happiness with someone else, I honestly see him tranferring all his devotion to that person. It's the pattern we've seen in the past. To break that pattern, I think the self-esteem has to come first. And since they're not providing any time for that character evolution to occur, I wouldn't buy a casual relationship that has any potential to heal him. I just don't see the potential for casual dating at all with the character as he is.

And I would also prefer that the Veronica/Piz relationship DOESN'T end badly. I think the thing that keeps drawing Veronica back to Logan (as opposed to the association with happiness that keeps Logan coming back to Veronica) is that only he can really make her upset and throw her emotions out of control. I think it would be much more optimistic for the future of the relationship if Piz/Veronica just petered out, nothing big and emotionally affecting.

And I'm not sure I trust either of them to play it the way it needs to be played. KB because she seems to have some sort of mental block when it comes to guys OTHER than Logan, and Logan because we've never see him NOT be intense in a relationship, unless it was purely sex, like with Kendall. I think JD is more likely to play it properly, but he needs to be TOLD that's where the arc is heading, and I don't trust RT to communicate it sufficiently to the actors.

Ugh, sorry. I'm being so completely pessimistic about this, but every option I see ends unhappily for me. :(

[arabian.livejournal.com]

See, I don't see that Logan relies on Veronica for his happiness. I just think that when things are good she makes him happy. I believe that he genuinely loves her and everything about her. I mean, he's seen her at her absolute worst (unlike EVERYONE ELSE) and he still loves her. So that's why I don't see it the way you do at all there.

As for V/P -- when I mean end badly, I don't mean big dramatic end badly like LoVe, but more like frustration with one another, with Piz realizing she used him and didn't really care and not being happy and Veronica realizing that she fucks up too, Logan is not the sole fuck-up in relationship universe.

Yeah, if Jason is TOLD how to play it, I have no worries -- but the interview he just gave implies that he has NO clue where it's heading, but of course he could be lying. While filming 17 (and no doubt having the script for 18) he acted like he had no clue if Piz/Veronica were going to hook up, so who knows? But yeah, anyway, if he knows, he'll do it right. La Bell? I don't trust her at all.

I know you're pessimistic and that's what's weird about me. I jump back and forth so much. I call my outlook expect the worst, but always hope for the best.

[sowell.livejournal.com]

Yeah, because that really IS my perception of the L/V relationship, if they show us that Parker makes Logan happy at all, Logan/Veronica will pretty much be over for me.

And since I can't imagine them NOT show Logan having at least somewhat of a crush on Parker, then I'm anticipating the absolute worst. I'm absolutely dreading these next couple episodes.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you watch The Class, but the way a relationship ended tonight was exactly what I mean with Logan/Parker. They can have fun together and enjoy each other, but know that it's never going anywhere. There's no long-term there.

And I just can't see Parker making him happy being the end to L/V. I mean, Heather made him happy. That doesn't mean the end of L/V. Sometimes Dick makes him happy. Veronica is not the only person that can make me happy. She's just the person who he is complete with. There's so much more to the two of them -- there's history, good and bad, there's a connection, and chemistry. There's love, and hate, there's pain and forgiveness, there's sex and fights, laughter and misery. There's the whole kaliedoscope of everything that has happened in their lives intertwined. They're opposite sides of the same coin, they're complete with one another. They just need to figure out how to make it work. Everytime they get back together, they DO make strides, they do learn a little bit more.

[sowell.livejournal.com]

I feel like you're talking about friends with benefits. Like nessaassen said below - like his connection with Heather, but with kissing. Sorry, but I don't see the potential for that kind of relationship with Logan. If they do go there, it will feel incredibly unnatural to me - to the point where the entire conception if the character will be irreparably changed.

And if they don't go there, and instead have him develop any romantic feelings for her - ANY, any hint that he and Parker might be able to be happy in the long run - well, then that taints my love for L/V as a couple. It doesn't matter whether Parker and Logan ACTUALLY play out and have a long-term relationship. Just Logan developing the feelings will be enough to ruin it for me.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

How will it be out of character? And unnatural? Part of the learning process is Logan needing to learn that a relationship DOESN'T have to be disastrous. That's all he's known. He needs to learn as much as Veronica does, but in different ways. And I'm not talking about friends with benefits ... that would be wrong, but just a fun, caring relationship that's not about deep, deep feelings, but just about enjoying each other in a short-term fashion. That's all. I think it's something that BOTH Logan and Parker need.

See, I think Logan has to have feelings for her because THAT'S Logan, he cares deeply all the time. But it doesn't have to be deep love. It can be deep affection and I don't know. I don't want this, but if it's played right I can see it working. And I think even Logan seeing happy with Parker is a good sign if it's used to show him that he and Veronica ARE meant to be long-term because even though he can be a kind of happy with Parker, it's not the real thing, it's not how happy he was and can be with Veronica when it's good. That with the good comes the bad.

It's like the complaints about Veronica/Piz ... there's no conflict. No conflict and part of the reason that Logan and Veronica are so perfect for one another is that they DO thrive on conflict ... it's something that does drive them both. And not having that will be just as wrong for Logan as it is for Veronica.

[sowell.livejournal.com]

I say it would be unnatural, because we've never seen him in a casual romantic relationship. Just very intense ones and ones comprised entirely of casual sex. What you're describing to me still feels like friends with benefits. And I can't see it with Logan. Parker, yes. But not Logan. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that sort of mid-range happy with Logan Echolls.

And I don't see how Logan learning he can be in a relationhip that's NOT disastrous will be of any use to him in his relationship with Veronica. If anything, it's more proof that he and Veronica will never work.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

That's not point. He needs to learn that you can have a relationship like that. Remember, he thinks a big relationship needs pain and bloodshed.

And I don't see how Logan learning he can be in a relationhip that's NOT disastrous will be of any use to him in his relationship with Veronica. If anything, it's more proof that he and Veronica will never work.

I would agree if Veronica were the ONLY relationship he had that was painful, but EVERY relationship he's had has been like that. So he automatically assumed it should be that way with Veronica, the way it was with Lilly and the situation he put himself in with Hannah at the end. The screw-up, the fuck-up, the not-good-enough. Part of the problem with the LV relationship is that LOGAN never fought for himself, he never believed he was good enough for Veronica, so why would she? He's never forgiven himself for all the crap, so he takes it and that became a pattern and realizing all of this is why I'm now getting the whole fast reunion/break-up. I will write a post dissecting it all tonight, I will. But it DOES make sense.

[sowell.livejournal.com]

That's not point. He needs to learn that you can have a relationship like that. Remember, he thinks a big relationship needs pain and bloodshed.
That's part of the romance of the character to me. The all-or-nothing aspect. And I think a big relationship DOES need pain and bloodshed. I thought that's what you were talking about with the "conflict" above. And unless Parker is going to be another "big" relationship, I'm not sure how finding stability with her will help him find stability with Veronica.

And if Parker is a "big" relationship - well, see above about why that would ruin the ship for me.

The screw-up, the fuck-up, the not-good-enough. Part of the problem with the LV relationship is that LOGAN never fought for himself, he never believed he was good enough for Veronica, so why would she? He's never forgiven himself for all the crap, so he takes it and that became a pattern and realizing all of this is why I'm now getting the whole fast reunion/break-up.
I agree he needs to get some self-worth. But in the past we've always seen him transfer his devotion to the girl who's treating him well at the moment. So if he finds self-worth through Parker, past experience indicates he'll transfer devotion in that direction. There's been nothing in between his last break-up with V and the new relationship with Parker - no time or life-changing experiences - to indicate he'd do differently.

[nessaassen.livejournal.com]

Re. the interview: At least he and Kristen are talking about how straight-up antagonism doesn't work anymore? So maybe they will be on the same page about subtext? Grasps at straws.

It's funny, the way you describe L/P, it sounds like Logan and Heather Button, redux, only with kissing? Like they (and their sad lack of dating self-esteem) are each other's projects. I agree with sowell though; it's hard to fathom Logan approaching a romantic relationship that way, given his history. I can maybe see Logan and Parker mutually agreeing that they aren't ready for serious relationships, but that they each just want someone with whom they can hang out and make out and have a good time. (And then Parker falls in love with Max, and Logan is super-excited for her, in his laid-back way.) I would need this arrangement to absolutely be text though--an actual verbal agreement Logan and Parker come to on my screen, not some fanwank I make up to convince myself that they're not falling in love.

But then, if that were the case, does Logan really need to ask Veronica's permission to quasi/casually date Parker? (That must be the scene he's referencing in the interview, right?) I don't know--I'm all hung up on the permission thing as a sign that Logan might think he could develop serious feelings for Parker, that he actually decides he's moving on. For me, it's Logan's absolute devotion to Veronica that carries the ship, as well as his honesty about it--as much as he hates himself for it at times, he's never failed to acknowledge his feelings for her, at least to himself, even in the worst moments of season 2. If he's out, it's over. (Veronica's only ever half-in anyway, so her relationship shenanigans matters less.) Maybe not on the show--if they somehow finagle a fourth season--but for me.

Because the other possibility that I can anticipate which I really don't want to see is an arc in which Logan lies to himself about moving on, an arc in which he steals a page from Veronica's book and buries his feelings for her. He starts a relationship with Parker, he thinks he's moved on. And then in some stupid cataclysmic disaster (or over the course of working a case with Veronica over several episodes), he realizes he never really got over her, he just thought he did. (Then you know, potentially Parker gets hurt, Veronica may or not feel the same way in return, etc. etc.) That seems like just the kind of contrivance these writers might pull, even though Logan is canonically the character on the show who is most in touch with his feelings, their implications, etc. And I never, ever want to see him *torn* between Parker and Veronica (God, can you imagine the CW promos that week?). That's not what this ship (or Logan) is about for me.

In any case, to get to any kind of L/V resolution, it seems like they've set themselves up to need a fourth season, and the chances of that seem pretty slim. (I know you're holding out hope for 19 and 20, and in my secret heart, I am too. But it feels exactly like the false hope I was holding on to before 3.12, and we know how that turned out.)

[sowell.livejournal.com]

I would need this arrangement to absolutely be text though--an actual verbal agreement Logan and Parker come to on my screen, not some fanwank I make up to convince myself that they're not falling in love.
Ditto.

But then, if that were the case, does Logan really need to ask Veronica's permission to quasi/casually date Parker? (That must be the scene he's referencing in the interview, right?) I don't know--I'm all hung up on the permission thing as a sign that Logan might think he could develop serious feelings for Parker, that he actually decides he's moving on.
Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.

For me, it's Logan's absolute devotion to Veronica that carries the ship, as well as his honesty about it
Yup. Left to Veronica, this couple never would have re-kindled. So if Logan moves on, it's pretty much done.

That seems like just the kind of contrivance these writers might pull, even though Logan is canonically the character on the show who is most in touch with his feelings, their implications, etc. And I never, ever want to see him *torn* between Parker and Veronica (God, can you imagine the CW promos that week?). That's not what this ship (or Logan) is about for me.
Man, I am on the exact same page as you. I would never be able to stomach a Parker-Logan-Veronica triangle.

(I know you're holding out hope for 19 and 20, and in my secret heart, I am too. But it feels exactly like the false hope I was holding on to before 3.12, and we know how that turned out.)
And...ditto.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

Responding to sowell now.

See, I disgaree -- about this ... Left to Veronica, this couple never would have re-kindled.

To me it was CRYSTAL clear that Veronica was waiting for one word from Logan in 3.13 and she was ready to jump back on board, which for Veronica -- taking in the history of the pairing and her character -- is at this point the closest we get to Veronica showing she wants it rekindled.

I just don't buy that they spent SO MUCH time in the first 13 episodes showing that the two DO love each other (yes, even V in 13 because we're still seeing that she's affected by the loss of Logan) if it was just going to end. I just can't believe that.

Oh, Lord know, I would never want a L/P/V triangle -- although it might be one of the few things that wakes Veronica up. Because I could see Logan being torn between them, but not in the traditional sense. More like torn between his true love for Veronica and being with someone who doesn't make him feel disappointed in himself. That way it wouldn't be between Veronica and Parker, but more between Veronica and Logan's self-image ... which isn't fair to Parker, but hey, she's just a side player in all of this really.

I guess until I know for sure there's no hope, I can't give it up. I've spent two and a half years dealing with this on VM and several more with other couples so I'm an old pro at it. hah!

[sowell.livejournal.com]

To me it was CRYSTAL clear that Veronica was waiting for one word from Logan in 3.13 and she was ready to jump back on board, which for Veronica -- taking in the history of the pairing and her character -- is at this point the closest we get to Veronica showing she wants it rekindled.
But she WAS waiting. And I don't think she'll ever take that first step. At least, not without some major character evolution, and we all know how likely that is. It's not that Veronica doesn't WANT to get back with him. But Logan has been the ever-hopeful one. And I can't see that changing. Nor do I particularly want it to, unless they're going to show us slowly and naturally how the Veronica we know came to that realization and had a non-epiphany change of heart. And there's no time now.

More like torn between his true love for Veronica and being with someone who doesn't make him feel disappointed in himself. That way it wouldn't be between Veronica and Parker, but more between Veronica and Logan's self-image ... which isn't fair to Parker, but hey, she's just a side player in all of this really.
I can't see that either. I've said before - I don't see Logan being so self-protective that he'd hold himself back from Veronica if he knew she still wanted him. Unless he truly had feelings for Parker. I mean...he tried to break up with her in 3.09, and that lasted precisely as long as it took her to look at him pleadingly, once. I just don't see him having that much emotion control....again, without a natural character arc to show us how he got there. If they're not going to do it organically, then I don't want them to do it at all.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

don't see Logan being so self-protective that he'd hold himself back from Veronica if he knew she still wanted him.

But we already saw that. In 3.13. It was written all over her face and in her tone of voice when she first spoke with him that she wanted him, and Logan didn't break. He is being self-protective.

But see again, he learned his lesson the very hard way in 3.09. He took her back without any change and they fell apart again because there was no change, thus why he wouldn't just fall back for it this time. As far as I've seen we've already gotten scenes showing his emotional control. She WOULD have taken him back had he tried harder, that was clear in the elevator, but HE chose not to do it. He left ONE anger-first/sorrow-later voicemail to get her back. That's it. He was burned in 12 by taking her back so easily in 9. It won't happen again. It's all about steps. 3.09 was the first big step of his by breaking up with her, and of course, he fell back, but when the events of 3.12 happened, it was what he needed to continue on that path.

Until Logan learns some emotional control with her, a relationship with them would never work -- and that's what we are actually seeing work. I mean, I'm NOW getting WHY they get back together/then break-up because as many mistakes as Veronica has made in their relationship, Logan has made some whoppers as well. Mostly dealing with just taking it and never fighting for himself. This is not just about Veronica's arc, but Logan's too. And it all IS tying in together. Look, I may be giving RT too much credit, but it is all making sense to me now.

And I still think there's going to be some kind of arc specifically for Veronica and we will see it. Jason referenced a lot of action (sounding violent like) with Logan towards the end of the season, so maybe he does get hurt and Veronica realizes that she really will lose him and that wakes her up.

[sowell.livejournal.com]

But we already saw that. In 3.13. It was written all over her face and in her tone of voice when she first spoke with him that she wanted him, and Logan didn't break.
Yeah...I really didn't see that. She wasn't being antagonistic, which was nice, but I didn't see any sort of invitation or longing in her look. Awkwardness, definitely some loaded emotion, but nothing said to me that she wanted Logan to make an advance. I read it as discomfort more than anything.

Maybe that's where we're differing? Because if you saw that as Logan holding strong against naked pleading, then I could see why you think Logan might be able to choose Parker over Veronica for purely self-protective reasons. But I seriously didn't interpret that scene anywhere close to the way you did.

Jason referenced a lot of action (sounding violent like) with Logan towards the end of the season, so maybe he does get hurt and Veronica realizes that she really will lose him and that wakes her up.
I would love this, if Logan's already broken up with Parker by then. If he and Parker are still together, then I really can't say how much I'd hate this as a device to end the Logan/Parker relationship.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't see it the first time I watched the scenes, but when I was doing the analysis -- those really help me break them down -- I have to really watch expression and tone and camera choices and such and it was clear to me when watching it then.

I really hope the L/P is over by 18 and I'm hoping that V/P is close to it also. Jason did reference Logan and Piz as both being estranged lovers of Veronica and that comment was made while filming 17, pre-production for 18 with the script having been read, I'm pretty sure.

I just can't give up hope until the very end.

[nessaassen.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I know there is huge disagreement about this crucial moment, but I also didn't read Veronica as being willing to take him back, if only he'd said something. To me, Veronica in this scene feels a lot like Veronica when Logan breaks down in Russkie Business--she's both sympathetic and mortified (as much for herself as for him), and she doesn't have a clue what to do with the obvious intensity of Logan's suffering. But she's not overcome with love for him either.

(Plus if anything, the optimistic reading of Veronica is Heather's reading, so it's hard for me to think it's supposed to be ours. I tend to think we and Logan are supposed to know better, or something.)

And yes, Veronica can only have a Logan/violence epiphany if Parker is not his girlfriend. I will be sick if the last shot is Veronica going to Logan's bedside only to see Parker already there holding his hand. Please no.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

It's funny because I responded to sowell's last post, mentioning Heather and their end like a relationship on another show right before I read this. But yeah, that's it.

I'll just say re: permission, it's not all we think it is and I think it'll be okay. I can't say more than that. And Jason had to have been referring to a scene in 18 because that's what they're filming and this sounds like a fairly new interview (what with the reference to the ratings for the last couple of episodes.)

As for your proposed arc with Logan ... I can't see that ever happening. Just no.

I do think a 4th season would achieve it better, but I can easily, easily seeing L/V together at the end of this one, with no problem.

[nessaassen.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm glad you know something that makes you feel better about the permission business. That's a sliver of a silver lining, and I can use all the hope I can get.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

I really, REALLY think there is an arc here for BOTH Logan and Veronica that will bring them back together and I think that Piz and Parker are a part of it. They're just a means to an end in the L/V relationship.

I'm so writing up a long post that deals with all of this.

[nessaassen.livejournal.com]

It's not that I've ever doubted that there's an arc here for Logan. As soon as the Madison spoilers came out, I thought that we might in retrospect be meant to see 3.09 as a moment of backsliding for Logan--he takes her back because he loves her and misses her, but not because anything about the reasons he's broken up with her have fundamentally changed (except he's learned his old coping mechanisms don't work anymore either). And so the aftermath of 3.12 should be about Logan figuring out who he is--if he's not Veronica's never-quite-good-but-trying boyfriend anymore, or the old entitled 09er who can party/sex/drink away (sublimate) his grief/rage, or his father's son, then what? The point for me is that Logan has to stop defining himself in terms of his relationships with other people; he has to know and be comfortable with who he is, and not only so he can stop playing what he seems to think of as the part of a good person just for Veronica's sake. But it's hard for me to see how jumping into a relationship with Parker doesn't allow him to skirt this issue once again. (I really wish they were bringing back Charlie, or giving him his own mystery (as investigator, not culprit), or something non-romantic instead.)

So I'm looking forward to your post. :)

[hiddenlocket.livejournal.com]

Yeah I defiantely agree with you that this would be the best way for it all to work out, especially with Veronica/Piz. Logan/Parker I still can never possibly picture but I guess if RT is really going to make it happen then a quick ending with friends thing would be best. Eh I still just don't see it in any way though. But on the Piz/Veronica front any type of character growth or realization at all for Veronica would be well appreciated.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

Agreed. There NEEDS to be some realization regarding a failure of some kind of Veronica in regards to the V/P thing. I can't see any other purpose for it. Not even Rob's hankering for it, because there just hasn't been build up to a P/V think in regards to his crush, but also in regards to Veronica's lack of awareness for it and love for Logan.

[diamondrocker.livejournal.com]

I think your spec is a good one, and can see this possibly playing out. It would make the most sense - but when has that ever really been a factor?

There's just one thing that I'm not so sure of, and it's concerning the V/Piz relationship. You spec that while she'll have her nice and normla, happy and fluffy, she'll have to chew him up and spit him out, and I just don't see that happening. I see this as being like Duncan/Veronica Part 2, where Veronica is a completely different entity. I haven't really thought too much about it, so I can't really get specific or detailed, but it's going to be the exact opposite of the L/V relationship. It won't be volatile - it'll be nice and light and happy, and probably none of V's issues will get brought up. Maybe it's the VM pessimist in me, and granted, I haven't read any spoilers or have any clue as to what's happening with the show, but I don't see V realizing through her relationship with Piz that she is still in love with Logan and needs him - I see her brushing their past relationship under the rug like she did in S2.

Lets hope that you're right and that I'm completely wrong.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

I guess the reason I don't see it the same as VD is because part of why Veronica accepted it as was is because of their specific history. She doesn't have that with Piz. At all.

If they go the route that you project (and sadly I could see it happening, mostly because I'm afraid no one will kick La Bell's ass in gear and make sure she plays it right), then they've really killed the LoVe ship, because it's ONLY the history of VD that made that even remotely believable in terms of Veronica's character.

[afrocurl.livejournal.com]

This would play out really well, and like you, I'll hope for something good.

Given what Jason was saying in that interview, I think he can tone down the long sad eyes at Veronica.

I'll save my thoughts for the JD interview, but I seriously love that man.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

I love him too. It was a GREAT interview. I don't the LV stuff toned down, I want the Logan schmoopy with Parker toned down. Because if he plays it the same way he does with Veronica, there's no differentiation and then what's the point? I'm counting on you, Jason, damnit!

[afrocurl.livejournal.com]

Well, I think he'd need to play down some of the look at Veronica to make the ones at Parker make sense, even if after a few days/weeks he realizes it doesn't work.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

Why? He didn't with the Hannah thing? Everytime he looked at Veronica, even during that whole arc, it was clear as day that he still loved her, even while he did care for Hannah. And it makes sense for Logan. I don't know, we'll see how it plays out. He can play the happy to be with someone who likes him with Parker opposite the heart-busting truth that he still loves Veronica and that's never going away. Not fair to Parker, but as I said above, she's a side player in all of this.

[afrocurl.livejournal.com]

I don't think Logan's intentions with Hannah were to use her to get at Veronica (only to use Hannah to get at her Dad), so I feel there's going to be a different level of acceptable looks from him toward Parker for that reason. If he's trying to move on, he can't look at Veronica with the same doe eyes and have the audience not want him to just dump Parker and be single (there's got to be something about Park that keeps him interested and that will let him sort of forget Veronica for a bit.)

[arabian.livejournal.com]

I"m not saying they were at all, because I know they weren't. He thought he had no future with Veronica, he was trying to move on (same as he will with Parker likely).

I guess I just disagree that he can't still look at Veronica that way and be with Parker, because it could be a 'the one that got away.'

[afrocurl.livejournal.com]

Ok. That makes sense.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

Phew, I finally got someone to see my side in this thread, hee!!

[afrocurl.livejournal.com]

Did I say I agreed? *blank stare*

I understand more than agree, if that helps.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

Oh, okay.

[juls-chuls.livejournal.com]

Well I've read your entry along with a lot of the comments, and I agree with you on pretty much everything.

Everyone's main peeve with your theory seem to be that it would be out of character for Logan to have that type of relationship with Parker, but honestly? That's what character development is. Yes, if he was the same person as he was in s1 then he probably would be incapable of having a relationship with Parker that wasn't about him throwing himself into it and convincing himself that it was deep deep love. But at this point, he's been through SO much with Veronica I think he just wants someone who will be company and comfort for him without the drama and pain of the type of relationships he's used to. He's just too tired to keep doing that to himself, and I think if it was to happen again he'd just lose himself.

So I've been hoping for this course of action ever since the V/P and L/P spoilers, and I really do hope that it turns out that way, but like you said, there are more than a few things that stand in the way of it playing out like that, so I'm withholding judgement for now.

[brandyleigh.livejournal.com]

I just wandered over here and I have to say I like your optimism. I was somewhat depressed after reading the Logan/Parker spoilers, mostly because I think that Parker could be a viable alternative to Veronica. While I think that Logan will always be at his happiest with Veronica, I feel like he's emotionally available enough to have a real relationship with someone else, and that maybe there will come a point in time where he decides (or the show makes us believe) that being with Veronica isn't worth it - that despite being really, truly happy when things are good between them, he can't handle the depression and despair that eventually happens when things go sour. I think that's why Parker/Logan upsets me more than Piz/Veronica - I don't want to see Piz and Veronica date, because it will bore me, most likely, but I never saw Piz as a real threat because there's no way Veronica will let him really get to know the real her. I don't care if they do have sex, I don't think he'll know a tenth of what Logan does about Veronica. But Logan/Parker worries me.

But what you're saying makes sense (and makes me hopeful, so yay for that). We've not seen Logan in a relationship where he wasn't either head over heels in love or just having casual sex. But, they've (I think) been trying to show us how he's grown this season, so maybe they're going to show him in a lighter, less dramatic relationship, that's not all about sex or about being in love. I really wish they would just bring back his brother, though, because I don't think Logan really needs to be in a relationship right now. But that's a rant for another day. :) I am irritated about Logan asking Veronica for her "permission" to date Parker. I'm not a big fan of that spoiler at the moment, but maybe something will change my mind. After all, who would've thought that we'd love a conversation about Duncan's sexual partners in 2.20? Maybe Logan asking for her permission will surprise me, in a good way. I hope so.

[arabian.livejournal.com]

What I've found interesting is so many are saying that Parker is a viable option (as I have I), but one of the major complaints about V/P is that there would be NO conflict -- nothing there. Well, isn't that the same case with L/P too? No conflict, boring. And judging last night's ep, not much chemistry either.

I really wish they would just bring back his brother, though, because I don't think Logan really needs to be in a relationship right now.

God, I agree so much ... it is NOT even funny. Grr, Rob.

I am irritated about Logan asking Veronica for her "permission" to date Parker. I'm not a big fan of that spoiler at the moment, but maybe something will change my mind.

Unless they change what I know, fear not. It will be fine.